me being right doesn't mean he's not right, it just means that we're both on different tracks. my goal is to get us on the same track and therefore to the same (correct!) conclusion
people like him think with their emotions, which is good and fine, but they usually don't think the way i think, which makes things like this harder
scientific advancement shouldn't come at a cost of the sources of your information.
the fact that you want information does not invalidate fugo's comfort level regarding purple haze. you're not dealing with just some basic supernatural ability, stands are a reflection of our selves and part of our souls. no one has any right to trivialize that or the way an individual stand user regards their own.
i'm not trivializing anything. there's zero risk posed to him or me or ANYONE else during this study, and so it makes the most rational sense for him to agree, right? i understand why he might be reluctant, but the information is confidential, and, like i said, there's no threat to anyone's safety in any way. it just seems kind of silly to prolong things like this when we could be getting so much more work done
you're doing it again. making us sound like we're just here for you to study and analyze. just because i agreed to it doesn't mean all of us are comfortable with that.
some stands are dangerous. and some stand users don't want to be scrutinized and pushed like this.
[There is absolutely nothing from his end for a couple of minutes, then:]
i understand that you all have your own lives, and i have never once wavered on that fact. i respect boundaries to the best of my ability, and i do not consider it "pushing" if i simply acknowledge the fact that i'm right. he still has the right to his own decision, just like you did, but i am allowed to express my opinions on any hypothetical decision he has. it's not pushing if it doesn't affect him.
you haven't gotten the desired result from fugo, so you asked me to intervene on your behalf. that is what i classify as 'pushing'.
especially when you refuse to acknowledge the idea that you could be anything but completely right. you won't acknowledge that you're right conditionally or partially, just 'right'.
yes, all you want is information and pursuing that isn't wrong. and yes, you're allowed to be of the opinion that fugo's refusal is wrong from your perspective
i, however, am allowed to point out that he possesses the right to refuse you that information, and you possess the right to hold that opinion that his doing so is wrong.
purple haze isn't like hierophant, carlos. purple haze isn't like any other stand i've ever known or heard of. it could kill you, possibly fugo, and probably anyone else it comes into contact with.
this isn't a matter of taking precautions. it's not 'if i'm careful, then-', and it's not 'for the sake of scientific advancement'.
the fact that you can even say 'there's zero risk posed to him or me or anyone else' only proves to me that you can't fully grasp what you want to study in this instance. or worse, that you think you know better about purple haze than fugo himself.
i'm telling you, as someone just as invested in learning about the subject as you, to leave it alone.
I'M not escalating this, you are. i don't need (or want, actually) your intervention, as i've realized that it would ultimately be only facetious and that you're likely just going to slander me. which i guess is deserved??? maybe??? but it's not helpful to anyone except yourself
i think you're underestimating my abilities, rather than me underestimating fugo's. i know that purple haze is dangerous, i'm not as stupid as everyone seems to think i am. if i can't handle it, then it is exclusively my loss, as i'll be dead, and so that won't bother you at all, i hope
i am right conditionally, and i am right partially, and i am right wholly. i know the risks, even at their most vague details, because i know the worst outcome. i don't think you get that i'm not scared of many things and so trying to explain it that way won't work. maybe i was exaggerating when i said there was zero risk, but i know that a stand logically can't kill its user and that i am not scared of anything some crummy stand can throw at me.
i am not going to slander you to anyone, first of all. and frankly i'm quite irritated that you would jump to such a conclusion. i admire your commitment to this subject, but that commitment is severely misapplied here.
i also never once implied you were stupid. careless, not stupid. and it is not exclusively your loss, as you've immediately failed to consider how fugo would feel if purple haze were to mistakenly kill you. for that matter, what happened to 'logic doesn't apply to things like this or people like him'? you have no idea if purple haze could kill fugo as well, and a severe misunderstanding of the implied term 'collateral damage'.
you are right conditionally, and wrong almost entirely. a lack of fearing death does not mean one should seek it out, i will tell you that from firsthand experience with the concept. you could die whether you're afraid of death or not and the fact that i am continuing this conversation is because i don't want that, for your sake or fugo's.
i stand by what i said--you are trivializing the matter and taking it far too lightly for the sake of your own curiosity under the name of 'science'.
logic doesn't apply to things like this or people like him, EMOTIONALLY SPEAKING. there is nothing short of a disease that kills whatever it exists in simply by existing, and even then, if we are treating this condition like a parasite, then there's no way that he could have lived this long. i've been taking notes. if stands could kill their users, there wouldn't be enough of you to fill this city, much less the amount of stand users described where you come from
just because you don't think i'm an idiot doesn't mean other people do. and i'm not trivializing anything!!! i thought i made that one clear--i'm taking this as seriously and as scientifically as i can. just the fact that i'm acknowledging the risks should be enough, i think. i'm not seeking death out, i'm simply noting it as a possibility. not being afraid of
it's wrong to assume 'there's no way he could have lived this long' when you don't know how long or short a time he's had his stand. not all users are born with them like polnareff and i were.
certain stands can potentially kill their users, carlos. it's incredibly, incredibly rare, but believe me when i say that i've seen it very nearly happen.
[A pause. Kakyoin looked back on the conversation and scowled--he'd gotten angry and spoken without thinking. He'd taken things one step further than he should have, and at this point he really couldn't just brush it off like it was nothing.]
[Damn it. He really did have to learn to get a better handle on his temper.]
[...You know what, irritated as he was actually Kakyoin was pretty grateful for that.]
Not all Stands are perfectly in line and compatible with their users. I know of one case where someone's Stand awoke as a malicious force against its user specifically. Though there were a fair amount of extenuating circumstances, the fact remains that 'a Stand which can kill its user' is neither impossible nor unheard of.
I won't tell you what Purple Haze is capable of. That's not my information to share. What I will tell you is that with what I know, I can not rule out the possibility that it could kill Fugo as well as you and anyone else that took one too many risks around it.
that's interesting. i wasn't aware that was possible, but it changes the nature of the phenomenon as a whole
with that knowledge, i'm going to have to avoid physically examining purple haze, because i don't want harm to come to fugo as a result of whatever it is that purple haze does. that being said, i still want him to tell me about his stand in a detailed manner, as that's completely safe and my information is confidential. i understand why you won't tell me, or else i'd just plain ask you, L. M. A. O.
[That stands for "Let Me Ask Others", not anything else. Why would it?]
[it's okay he has no idea what that means in the usual context anyway]
But you can't push the topic, either. You need to understand that--not everyone is comfortable being as forward about their Stand as I am. He might not want to volunteer that information now or even in the near future, and if that's the case you need to respect that.
i'm not pushing it! he'll come to me on his own terms, when he realizes that i'm right and he's decided to help me out. i get that people have different comfort levels, that's not unheard of
You really shouldn't assume he will. But if that's what you're going to do regardless, all I'm going to ask is that you not pressure him. Be patient, and don't talk to him like information on Purple Haze is the only thing you're engaging with him for.
i'm as patient as patient can be. and, besides, he seems to have a lot of stories to tell that aren't stand-related, and that's always fun! even though he is a bit rude sometimes
[There's something to be said here about a pot calling the kettle rude.]
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 02:27 am (UTC)people like him think with their emotions, which is good and fine, but they usually don't think the way i think, which makes things like this harder
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 02:35 am (UTC)you're assuming your conclusion is the correct one
it's not
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 02:39 am (UTC)yeah it is
it's for the good of scientific advancement which can only mean it's right, obviously.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 02:46 am (UTC)the fact that you want information does not invalidate fugo's comfort level regarding purple haze. you're not dealing with just some basic supernatural ability, stands are a reflection of our selves and part of our souls. no one has any right to trivialize that or the way an individual stand user regards their own.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 02:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 03:09 am (UTC)[...Did he even know what Purple Haze did?]
stop.
you're doing it again. making us sound like we're just here for you to study and analyze. just because i agreed to it doesn't mean all of us are comfortable with that.
some stands are dangerous. and some stand users don't want to be scrutinized and pushed like this.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 03:19 am (UTC)[There is absolutely nothing from his end for a couple of minutes, then:]
i understand that you all have your own lives, and i have never once wavered on that fact. i respect boundaries to the best of my ability, and i do not consider it "pushing" if i simply acknowledge the fact that i'm right. he still has the right to his own decision, just like you did, but i am allowed to express my opinions on any hypothetical decision he has. it's not pushing if it doesn't affect him.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 03:33 am (UTC)especially when you refuse to acknowledge the idea that you could be anything but completely right. you won't acknowledge that you're right conditionally or partially, just 'right'.
yes, all you want is information and pursuing that isn't wrong. and yes, you're allowed to be of the opinion that fugo's refusal is wrong from your perspective
i, however, am allowed to point out that he possesses the right to refuse you that information, and you possess the right to hold that opinion that his doing so is wrong.
purple haze isn't like hierophant, carlos. purple haze isn't like any other stand i've ever known or heard of. it could kill you, possibly fugo, and probably anyone else it comes into contact with.
this isn't a matter of taking precautions. it's not 'if i'm careful, then-', and it's not 'for the sake of scientific advancement'.
the fact that you can even say 'there's zero risk posed to him or me or anyone else' only proves to me that you can't fully grasp what you want to study in this instance. or worse, that you think you know better about purple haze than fugo himself.
i'm telling you, as someone just as invested in learning about the subject as you, to leave it alone.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 03:50 am (UTC)i think you're underestimating my abilities, rather than me underestimating fugo's. i know that purple haze is dangerous, i'm not as stupid as everyone seems to think i am. if i can't handle it, then it is exclusively my loss, as i'll be dead, and so that won't bother you at all, i hope
i am right conditionally, and i am right partially, and i am right wholly. i know the risks, even at their most vague details, because i know the worst outcome. i don't think you get that i'm not scared of many things and so trying to explain it that way won't work. maybe i was exaggerating when i said there was zero risk, but i know that a stand logically can't kill its user and that i am not scared of anything some crummy stand can throw at me.
it's just science.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 03:59 am (UTC)i also never once implied you were stupid. careless, not stupid. and it is not exclusively your loss, as you've immediately failed to consider how fugo would feel if purple haze were to mistakenly kill you. for that matter, what happened to 'logic doesn't apply to things like this or people like him'? you have no idea if purple haze could kill fugo as well, and a severe misunderstanding of the implied term 'collateral damage'.
you are right conditionally, and wrong almost entirely. a lack of fearing death does not mean one should seek it out, i will tell you that from firsthand experience with the concept. you could die whether you're afraid of death or not and the fact that i am continuing this conversation is because i don't want that, for your sake or fugo's.
i stand by what i said--you are trivializing the matter and taking it far too lightly for the sake of your own curiosity under the name of 'science'.
don't ever trivialize stands, carlos
not to me
1/3
Date: 2016-07-24 04:20 am (UTC)just because you don't think i'm an idiot doesn't mean other people do. and i'm not trivializing anything!!! i thought i made that one clear--i'm taking this as seriously and as scientifically as i can. just the fact that i'm acknowledging the risks should be enough, i think. i'm not seeking death out, i'm simply noting it as a possibility. not being afraid of
2/3
Date: 2016-07-24 04:21 am (UTC)"firsthand experience"
3/3
Date: 2016-07-24 04:21 am (UTC)1/3
Date: 2016-07-24 04:29 am (UTC)certain stands can potentially kill their users, carlos. it's incredibly, incredibly rare, but believe me when i say that i've seen it very nearly happen.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 04:30 am (UTC)[Damn it. He really did have to learn to get a better handle on his temper.]
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 04:31 am (UTC)The difference between us is that I've already done it.
1/2
Date: 2016-07-24 10:25 pm (UTC)i'm sorry???
um
2/2
Date: 2016-07-24 10:27 pm (UTC)[Like nothing ever happened.]
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 10:34 pm (UTC)Not all Stands are perfectly in line and compatible with their users. I know of one case where someone's Stand awoke as a malicious force against its user specifically. Though there were a fair amount of extenuating circumstances, the fact remains that 'a Stand which can kill its user' is neither impossible nor unheard of.
I won't tell you what Purple Haze is capable of. That's not my information to share. What I will tell you is that with what I know, I can not rule out the possibility that it could kill Fugo as well as you and anyone else that took one too many risks around it.
I don't want that to happen, Carlos.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 10:46 pm (UTC)with that knowledge, i'm going to have to avoid physically examining purple haze, because i don't want harm to come to fugo as a result of whatever it is that purple haze does. that being said, i still want him to tell me about his stand in a detailed manner, as that's completely safe and my information is confidential. i understand why you won't tell me, or else i'd just plain ask you, L. M. A. O.
[That stands for "Let Me Ask Others", not anything else. Why would it?]
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 10:54 pm (UTC)But you can't push the topic, either. You need to understand that--not everyone is comfortable being as forward about their Stand as I am. He might not want to volunteer that information now or even in the near future, and if that's the case you need to respect that.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 11:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-24 11:27 pm (UTC)You really shouldn't assume he will. But if that's what you're going to do regardless, all I'm going to ask is that you not pressure him. Be patient, and don't talk to him like information on Purple Haze is the only thing you're engaging with him for.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-25 01:43 am (UTC)[There's something to be said here about a pot calling the kettle rude.]
no subject
Date: 2016-07-25 03:06 am (UTC)So am I. It's not that bad.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: