I wasn't really going for extravagant. Just useful, but I am really glad you like it. I wasn't sure if it would seem boring in amongst the rest of your gifts. You have a group of very talented friends, you know.
Did he? If I had known you were collecting swear words in different languages, I would have made you some flash cards with Gaelic curses on them. We were pretty creative when it came to making them up.
I couldn't even begin to guess how to pronounce it, much less translate it. I'm pretty sure Japanese doesn't even have half the sounds I'm assuming are in there.
[Diarmuid laughs and then takes a moment to send Kakyoin a short voice clip of himself staying the curse.]
It means, 'May you have glass legs and may the glass break!' Like I said, needlessly poetic, but it gets the point across.
A more modern one I learned thanks to the Grail is 'Go n-ithe an cat thú, is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat.' [There is some English sprinkled in there Kakyoin might be able to pick out when Diarmuid sends along the second voice clip.]
It means 'May the cat eat you and may the devil eat the cat.'
That is a good question. Perhaps the person who originally said it just didn't like cats? Or, it may be a reference to the Cat Sidhe which was a spirit that often took the shape of a large black cat with a white spot on its chest. Cat Sidhe were said to be able to steal the soul of a person if one passed over the person's body before it was buried. So, if your soul was cursed to be 'eaten' by a Cat Sidhe and then said Cat Sidhe was eaten by the devil, it would be one powerful double curse.
[He has to admit, a curse like that has a lot more impact on him than just the idea of someone being impolite would. Then again, he and curses have a long history together...]
What the Grail tells me about nekomata is exactly that, so I would agree they are similar aside from that obvious difference. It's funny. Our curses often appear very simple on the surface--and many are--but if you look into the history of some, they do become a lot darker and more complex very quickly.
I am not sure how just being impolite can measure up to that. Can you explain some of the history to me? [He may have surface knowledge of Japanese traditions and history, but it is just the bare minimum to function in the society and nowhere near what someone who grew up there would know.]
Japanese as a language relies very heavily on politeness and formality. I was telling Polnareff not too long ago about the different words for 'I' and how they vary in formality. To use the same example, I ordinarily use watashi or boku because those are more or less the accepted standards for someone my age. The former is more or less default, while the latter is slightly more casual. Jotaro, on the other hand, uses ore which is about as rough and informal as you'd expect from him.
More to the point, with a language such as that the simple absence of formality is essentially a massive show of disrespect. It's not difficult to insult someone completely by mistake, if one's not used to speaking it. Continuing to use Jotaro as an example, I think one of the first things I ever overheard him saying was やかましい, 'yakamashii', which is basically 'shut up'. Which doesn't sound like much as far as insults go, but I suppose the tone may not translate well.
To use another example, the word for 'you' we used to refer to each other that day was 'きさま', 'kisama'. It's a rough word that is probably better translated as 'you bastard' or something to that effect.
So what you are saying is that the formality is so much a part of the culture that it is a key component in even the most basic ways of identifying yourself and everyone else. It sounds like the games people play when at court. One word or phrase has so many layers that just the very tone it is said in can make it mean different things. Even a small shift in tone can take a greeting to an insult that one would kill another over very easily.
I like to think modern day has gotten passed killing each other for an insult, but it almost sounds like said insult done correctly in Japanese might end up being worse than killing someone. I guess it just depends on how strongly the person feels about formality.
He just gives off the image of one. I have to give him credit, he does that pretty well. But he's definitely not much of a delinquent outside of appearance and the way he talks. Hell, half the time I think I'm worse than he is.
Does he know you are ruining his reputation so? [Diarmuid laughs as he sends the message, following it up a few moments later with another one.]
I'm joking of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were worse than he is. They always say it is the quiet ones you have to watch out for. Plus, you are a strategist. You don't mind waiting if it will make the payback that much better.
[Well, Diarmuid can't say much to that. He has his ducks after all.]
What it says is that you've been through a lot--even more than he has in some ways. It will probably always be harder for you to trust and find reason to be kind to others.
Well, I thought that was a given, but it is your birthday. If I don't get all the sentimental out today, then you will have to deal with me getting sentiment all over you during other times of the year.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2016-07-27 02:30 am (UTC)What is the craziest gift you've been given so far?
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Date: 2016-07-27 02:33 am (UTC)But Fugo indirectly taught me how to curse in Italian by giving me flash cards, and it's pretty difficult to beat that.
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Date: 2016-07-27 03:28 am (UTC)I wasn't really going for extravagant. Just useful, but I am really glad you like it. I wasn't sure if it would seem boring in amongst the rest of your gifts. You have a group of very talented friends, you know.
Did he? If I had known you were collecting swear words in different languages, I would have made you some flash cards with Gaelic curses on them. We were pretty creative when it came to making them up.
...
Of course, there is always next year.
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Date: 2016-07-27 04:02 am (UTC)Is that right? I would never pass up an opportunity to learn something new, just for future reference.
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Date: 2016-07-28 04:50 am (UTC)This one has always been one of my favorites because it is unnecessarily poetic. Care to guess what I am saying?
[Yeah, good luck with that. Gaelic is not one of those languages that has words that sound like anything other that...well, Gaelic.]
no subject
Date: 2016-07-28 04:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-28 05:13 am (UTC)[Diarmuid laughs and then takes a moment to send Kakyoin a short voice clip of himself staying the curse.]
It means, 'May you have glass legs and may the glass break!' Like I said, needlessly poetic, but it gets the point across.
A more modern one I learned thanks to the Grail is 'Go n-ithe an cat thú, is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat.'
[There is some English sprinkled in there Kakyoin might be able to pick out when Diarmuid sends along the second voice clip.]
It means 'May the cat eat you and may the devil eat the cat.'
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Date: 2016-07-28 05:17 am (UTC)I don't believe we have a lot of phrases like that--usually for us just being impolite is a serious insult in itself.
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Date: 2016-07-28 05:45 am (UTC)[He has to admit, a curse like that has a lot more impact on him than just the idea of someone being impolite would. Then again, he and curses have a long history together...]
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Date: 2016-07-28 05:48 am (UTC)Either way, that seems like one hell of a thing to wish on someone.
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Date: 2016-07-28 05:55 am (UTC)I am not sure how just being impolite can measure up to that. Can you explain some of the history to me?
[He may have surface knowledge of Japanese traditions and history, but it is just the bare minimum to function in the society and nowhere near what someone who grew up there would know.]
no subject
Date: 2016-07-28 06:09 am (UTC)More to the point, with a language such as that the simple absence of formality is essentially a massive show of disrespect. It's not difficult to insult someone completely by mistake, if one's not used to speaking it. Continuing to use Jotaro as an example, I think one of the first things I ever overheard him saying was やかましい, 'yakamashii', which is basically 'shut up'. Which doesn't sound like much as far as insults go, but I suppose the tone may not translate well.
To use another example, the word for 'you' we used to refer to each other that day was 'きさま', 'kisama'. It's a rough word that is probably better translated as 'you bastard' or something to that effect.
no subject
Date: 2016-07-29 04:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-29 04:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-29 05:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-29 06:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-30 03:40 am (UTC)[Way to ruin the rep of all delinquents everywhere, Mr Kujo.]
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Date: 2016-07-30 03:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-07-30 04:53 am (UTC)[Diarmuid laughs as he sends the message, following it up a few moments later with another one.]
I'm joking of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were worse than he is. They always say it is the quiet ones you have to watch out for. Plus, you are a strategist. You don't mind waiting if it will make the payback that much better.
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Date: 2016-07-30 04:56 am (UTC)I can tell you right now he's a much kinder person than I am. Which, all things considered, might say more about me than it does him.
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Date: 2016-07-30 05:17 am (UTC)What it says is that you've been through a lot--even more than he has in some ways. It will probably always be harder for you to trust and find reason to be kind to others.
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Date: 2016-07-30 05:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-01 03:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-01 03:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-08-02 03:26 am (UTC)