Yeah. I'm not so sure I really know what is or isn't 'selfish' anymore. At the very least it's gotten difficult to distinguish the acceptable selfishness from what one should be careful of.
[Kakyoin tilted his head slightly, abruptly stopping in his fidgeting with the pen.]
I won't tell you you're stupid, if that helps. Mostly because I think you can throw a punch much harder than I can. [As flat as he thought that sounded, it was meant as a joke.] But also because I know you aren't.
[Well. Both are true. Even if he feels really stupid right now, and lately in general, he knows he really isn't. There are just some things he's . . . maybe not as good at as he thought he was. Maybe a lot of things. Maybe . . .]
[Maybes aren't good enough. He has to know what to do. But he can't say it, not to anyone really and certainly not to Kakyoin.]
[So.]
[He pinches the bridge of his nose for a moment, trying to figure out how to make the words work right.]
There's . . . I don't know. I have to make this decision.
Someone I know said something to me about how — the way I'm important to them. And it's not as though there's some kind of time pressure to decide, or anything, I just know I have to because it affects more than just us. And I think I know the answer, I know what I want to do. But I also know I shouldn't. I really shouldn't do a lot of things I want to do, because I'm not part of people's lives anymore in the same way I used to be. I'm not part of the future, I mean.
Except every time I say that people get pissed at me and tell me to do whatever I want, even though that's not how the world works. It never has, it never will. Actions have consequences, and just because something would make me happy doesn't mean it's fine to — to hurt other people just for myself.
[. . . nailed it. No one will ever know what he is talking about.]
[He raised an eyebrow slightly--there was no way Caesar could possibly think Kakyoin wouldn't know what any of that meant, was there? ...then again, no one ever said either of them were brilliant when it came to these things.]
[It was almost a relief to understand that Joseph must have finally spoken up himself. Caesar had been just as oblivious as Kakyoin was once; now maybe he could start sorting things out and actually try giving a shit about himself.]
Before I say or do anything to answer that, I want to make this clear. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation won't leave this room. I won't say a word to anyone, especially not Jotaro.
...So if you want me to be straightforward with you about the fact that you and I are in the same place right now in more ways than one, I can do that. Or I can act as though have no idea who or what we're talking about. That's entirely up to you.
...You mentioned something about selfishness earlier. I think this probably ties into that in a few different ways.
[Taking a deep breath, Kakyoin sighed quietly and reached into a pocket of his jacket to pull out a small notebook.]
You're right to be worried. It's the smart reaction to have, recognizing that this is a delicate situation. Whatever happens is going to have consequences one way or another, and running ahead without thinking is dangerous. But that doesn't necessarily make it a matter of black and white--it's not 'either my happiness ruins everything or I don't and everyone continues on as they were'.
...Like I said, Caesar. This conversation doesn't leave this room--so I'm going to trust you with something while I try to explain myself.
[He opened the notebook, turning backwards past the meticulously copied charts to the page just before it and placing it on the table between them--facing Caesar now was a rough and quick drawing of a teenager.]
This girl's name is--or will be--Jolyne. She likes baseball, chocolate, motorcycles, has a tattoo of a butterfly and a knife, and dyes part of her hair different colors. [For a fleeting second, Kakyoin had a genuine smile like a proud older brother or parent. When he looked back up to Caesar, that look was replaced with something level and calm.]
Jolyne Cujoh exists in the future where 'Noriaki Kakyoin' doesn't. So it's like you said--'it affects more than just us'. But I think...it doesn't have to be 'Kakyoin or Jolyne' just like it doesn't have to be 'Caesar or Holly.' It's true that other people are and will be affected by decisions like this, yes. But that just means...being a little flexible. Wanting to be happy isn't selfish, it's normal. Demanding to be happy at the cost of someone else's happiness is selfish, but that's not what either of us is doing.
You say that you're not part of the future. I won't argue with you. All I'll say is that the fact that either of us is breathing makes the word 'impossible' a joke. So if you ever decide you want to try to create a better future where everyone involved suffers as little as possible, I'll be with you the whole way.
[It doesn't hit him until about halfway through this little speech that Kakyoin wasn't joking. He does, in fact, know exactly what he's talking about. This isn't general advice, it's weirdly, uncomfortably specific. Which begs the question of how, and furthermore why, especially if it was Joseph who told him, or . . .]
[The impulse, in the midst of frustration and embarrassment, is to get angry. He stops just shy of anger, at haughtiness. Looking down at the picture, he doesn't even need the surname to know. She looks like Jotaro. Just like him, especially around the eyes and mouth; the nose is someone else's.]
Did you know about her before, when you made your choice?
[He lifts his eyes, tips his chin up, because he knows the answer to this question and the next one.]
How long have you known her mother? One year? Two? Three? More?
I don't know her mother at all. I doubt that Jojo does right now, either.
[Still calm, still steady. This was the one point where things didn't line up between them, and Kakyoin spoke very carefully as he continued.]
Her name's Suzie, is that right? That girl from the party, the one in the kitchen...it didn't really connect because I've never met Jotaro's grandmother myself, just heard them talking to her over the phone.
Of course, that's someone else to be worried about. You seemed like close friends, so naturally you wouldn't want to hurt her, either.
[It comes out a snarl, before he catches himself, makes himself reel back in. Even then, though, he's all contained grief and fury, his fists clenched on the table so hard his knuckles are white.]
. . . She's not . . . "that girl from the party". She's . . .
I don't think you can understand how brave she is unless you know . . . where she came from, what she's done, what was expected of her and the path she chose instead. But she's not just some girl. She's not just my friend. She's . . .
I had to leave home, and she did too. For different reasons, but she understood, and she - sometimes she'd just talk to me like she knew I needed to have someone talk about home like it mattered. Because if someone else said "I miss them," then I wouldn't have to. And I was supposed to protect her, I am supposed to protect her. That's my job. That's what I want to do, I'm.
She's not just some girl, or Holly's mother, or Jotaro's grandmother, she's . . . my Suzie. And if I hurt her, the one person who trusted me to always take care of her, then none of you, no matter how much breath you waste, can convince me it's worthwhile for me to be here.
Relax. I just said I've never met her before, so obviously I didn't have anything else to go off of until you just told me.
[Which he listened to, without commenting apart from that for a long few minutes. Kakyoin thought very carefully about the situation and tried to put himself in a similar one to evaluate how he'd react. If there was a girl who loved Jotaro the same way he did, one that was like a sister to him (Izabel came to mind for a split second, but she didn't fit the first criteria even in a hypothetical) then what would he do? For a long time he had trouble even picturing the situation until a half-joking conversation with Polnareff came to mind. If joking wasn't joking and it really was between the three of them, what then? He sure as hell wouldn't step aside as long as Jotaro still wanted him around, he didn't have 'surrender' in his vocabulary. But there had to be some gray middle ground between black and white, one or the other.]
...The fact that you're worried about this so much means you aren't going to just carelessly hurt her.
[Kakyoin couldn't believe he was seriously considering this purely hypothetical matter, but if it came down to a matter of himself, Polnareff, and Jotaro in a similar tangled mess, then-]
You shouldn't have to shut down every possible route that ends in your own happiness just because some of them might hurt her. Some will, but those obviously aren't the paths you're going to take. You're thinking through what happens next and considering the consequences, that's important in itself.
[-he would want them all to be happy. Taking a half-step to one side wasn't stepping aside completely.]
Hear me out for a minute. I want you to talk about this with Joseph--ask him how he feels about Suzie himself, if you haven't already. If what I know for a fact in 1988 is still true now, I know he'll want to protect her too. The two of you make a good team; you're the kind of people that just get each other sometimes, right? So if you want to protect her and he wants to protect her, then you can work together and make sure none of you end up getting hurt.
[He'll fight his own ass in the desert over Suzie Quatro. Don't test him.]
[He does listen, though. He doesn't really like this answer, or believe it, but he's finding it hard to argue against it. It's just hard to envision this working out without people getting hurt, terribly hurt. That's sort of what he's used to. Used to doing the hurting, too.]
[Suzie's not one of those girls. She's his Suzie, or their Suzie, or something . . . he doesn't know. He just doesn't know at all.]
I asked him. That was, that was the first thing I asked him. He said he didn't know what would happen, if — he just said he didn't know how it would change things. And then—
[And then they weren't talking about that anymore. Or about anything. He frowns slightly, focusing just past Kakyoin's ear.]
I don't think he knows. About that or about anything. He doesn't, when he got here he was still fighting, I don't know if it's any easier for him to think about all of this, about having a life again, than it is for me.
[That answer came immediately, as though it hadn't required thought at all. It couldn't have been any easier for Joseph just like it wasn't easy for Jotaro. Dying had been simple, living past that was what seemed nigh impossible.]
No one goes back to being normal after...all of this. Cairo, whatever you guys were doing, there's no 'happily ever after', there's no 'back to the way things were'. There's just 'trying not to be fucked up'. But there's also the fact that neither of us have to try to do that alone.
Listen to me, okay--really carefully. Rushing ahead would be careless, you're absolutely right to be concerned about Suzie as well as just in general. But you're not just rushing ahead, the factthat you're here talking about this at all proves that. And you don't have to solve every single problem here at this exact second. If there's one thing this place is good for, it's giving time to people that don't have any--so for now you and Joseph both have time to work through this whole thing as cautiously as you need to.
Your happiness doesn't automatically mean someone else's misery, Caesar. Not Suzie's, not Holly's, not anyone's. It's not completely, unforgivably selfish to think 'I deserve to be unconditionally happy just once after the shit I've been through.'
Historically speaking, my happiness hasn't really coincided with anyone else's.
[There's still one thing he wants to ask about, but at the same time he really, really doesn't. He doesn't want to talk about any of this. He doesn't want to be here, but he doesn't want to go home. He has no idea what he wants — which is exactly the problem.]
[He drags his hands down his face, up through his hair, ends up with his hands folded on the table and his chin rested on top of them.]
This is all so stupid. It's stupid that it's happening at all, it's stupid that I'm so shit at it, all of this is stupid.
It's pretty stupid. [He picked up the notebook,putting it back in his jacket.] Things like this shouldn't be nearly this difficult. Or at least, we shouldn't have to worry so damn much about them.
...But I think it's okay if you're not any good at it. Neither am I, and I think I've gotten a little better. You will too, I'm sure.
But it won't. You're not going to knowingly hurt anyone that doesn't deserve it. Doing something unintentionally, though--that just happens. It's called making mistakes and fucking up, everyone does it once in a while.
I've screwed up a lot of different ways and gotten Jotaro pissed off at me before. It didn't change anything. He was angry, but that didn't automatically translate to 'I hate you and never want to see you again, Kakyoin' even if I was absolutely convinced that it would.
...I told you I wanted to be part of this family. I wanted whatever that other Kakyoin Fujiko told you to be true, weird and surreal as it might be. I meant it then, and I mean it now. Family doesn't turn their back on one another, right? Even if you did something to really make me angry, I wouldn't suddenly despise you. And I know friends don't just turn their backs on each other. No one here is going to despise you or write you off as a lost cause. I won't allow it, even if they tried.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 03:30 am (UTC)[...]
How've you been doing?
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Date: 2016-04-10 03:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 03:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 03:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 03:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 03:40 am (UTC)[. . .]
I don't know how to answer that question. I'm thinking and I don't know.
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Date: 2016-04-10 03:41 am (UTC)[boy didn't he know a rough time when he saw it.]
...You don't have to talk about it if you'd rather not. We can talk about anything.
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Date: 2016-04-10 03:43 am (UTC)I do, but I think if I did it everyone would tell me I was being stupid . . . I don't know.
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Date: 2016-04-10 03:46 am (UTC)I won't tell you you're stupid, if that helps. Mostly because I think you can throw a punch much harder than I can. [As flat as he thought that sounded, it was meant as a joke.] But also because I know you aren't.
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Date: 2016-04-10 08:53 pm (UTC)[Maybes aren't good enough. He has to know what to do. But he can't say it, not to anyone really and certainly not to Kakyoin.]
[So.]
[He pinches the bridge of his nose for a moment, trying to figure out how to make the words work right.]
There's . . . I don't know. I have to make this decision.
Someone I know said something to me about how — the way I'm important to them. And it's not as though there's some kind of time pressure to decide, or anything, I just know I have to because it affects more than just us. And I think I know the answer, I know what I want to do. But I also know I shouldn't. I really shouldn't do a lot of things I want to do, because I'm not part of people's lives anymore in the same way I used to be. I'm not part of the future, I mean.
Except every time I say that people get pissed at me and tell me to do whatever I want, even though that's not how the world works. It never has, it never will. Actions have consequences, and just because something would make me happy doesn't mean it's fine to — to hurt other people just for myself.
[. . . nailed it. No one will ever know what he is talking about.]
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Date: 2016-04-10 09:01 pm (UTC)[It was almost a relief to understand that Joseph must have finally spoken up himself. Caesar had been just as oblivious as Kakyoin was once; now maybe he could start sorting things out and actually try giving a shit about himself.]
Before I say or do anything to answer that, I want to make this clear. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation won't leave this room. I won't say a word to anyone, especially not Jotaro.
...So if you want me to be straightforward with you about the fact that you and I are in the same place right now in more ways than one, I can do that. Or I can act as though have no idea who or what we're talking about. That's entirely up to you.
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Date: 2016-04-10 09:08 pm (UTC)I don't care. You can say whatever you want.
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Date: 2016-04-10 09:32 pm (UTC)[Taking a deep breath, Kakyoin sighed quietly and reached into a pocket of his jacket to pull out a small notebook.]
You're right to be worried. It's the smart reaction to have, recognizing that this is a delicate situation. Whatever happens is going to have consequences one way or another, and running ahead without thinking is dangerous. But that doesn't necessarily make it a matter of black and white--it's not 'either my happiness ruins everything or I don't and everyone continues on as they were'.
...Like I said, Caesar. This conversation doesn't leave this room--so I'm going to trust you with something while I try to explain myself.
[He opened the notebook, turning backwards past the meticulously copied charts to the page just before it and placing it on the table between them--facing Caesar now was a rough and quick drawing of a teenager.]
This girl's name is--or will be--Jolyne. She likes baseball, chocolate, motorcycles, has a tattoo of a butterfly and a knife, and dyes part of her hair different colors. [For a fleeting second, Kakyoin had a genuine smile like a proud older brother or parent. When he looked back up to Caesar, that look was replaced with something level and calm.]
Jolyne Cujoh exists in the future where 'Noriaki Kakyoin' doesn't. So it's like you said--'it affects more than just us'. But I think...it doesn't have to be 'Kakyoin or Jolyne' just like it doesn't have to be 'Caesar or Holly.' It's true that other people are and will be affected by decisions like this, yes. But that just means...being a little flexible. Wanting to be happy isn't selfish, it's normal. Demanding to be happy at the cost of someone else's happiness is selfish, but that's not what either of us is doing.
You say that you're not part of the future. I won't argue with you. All I'll say is that the fact that either of us is breathing makes the word 'impossible' a joke. So if you ever decide you want to try to create a better future where everyone involved suffers as little as possible, I'll be with you the whole way.
That's...what family does, isn't it?
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Date: 2016-04-10 09:47 pm (UTC)[The impulse, in the midst of frustration and embarrassment, is to get angry. He stops just shy of anger, at haughtiness. Looking down at the picture, he doesn't even need the surname to know. She looks like Jotaro. Just like him, especially around the eyes and mouth; the nose is someone else's.]
Did you know about her before, when you made your choice?
[He lifts his eyes, tips his chin up, because he knows the answer to this question and the next one.]
How long have you known her mother? One year? Two? Three? More?
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Date: 2016-04-10 10:04 pm (UTC)[Still calm, still steady. This was the one point where things didn't line up between them, and Kakyoin spoke very carefully as he continued.]
Her name's Suzie, is that right? That girl from the party, the one in the kitchen...it didn't really connect because I've never met Jotaro's grandmother myself, just heard them talking to her over the phone.
Of course, that's someone else to be worried about. You seemed like close friends, so naturally you wouldn't want to hurt her, either.
no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 10:14 pm (UTC)[It comes out a snarl, before he catches himself, makes himself reel back in. Even then, though, he's all contained grief and fury, his fists clenched on the table so hard his knuckles are white.]
. . . She's not . . . "that girl from the party". She's . . .
I don't think you can understand how brave she is unless you know . . . where she came from, what she's done, what was expected of her and the path she chose instead. But she's not just some girl. She's not just my friend. She's . . .
I had to leave home, and she did too. For different reasons, but she understood, and she - sometimes she'd just talk to me like she knew I needed to have someone talk about home like it mattered. Because if someone else said "I miss them," then I wouldn't have to. And I was supposed to protect her, I am supposed to protect her. That's my job. That's what I want to do, I'm.
She's not just some girl, or Holly's mother, or Jotaro's grandmother, she's . . . my Suzie. And if I hurt her, the one person who trusted me to always take care of her, then none of you, no matter how much breath you waste, can convince me it's worthwhile for me to be here.
no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 10:37 pm (UTC)[Which he listened to, without commenting apart from that for a long few minutes. Kakyoin thought very carefully about the situation and tried to put himself in a similar one to evaluate how he'd react. If there was a girl who loved Jotaro the same way he did, one that was like a sister to him (Izabel came to mind for a split second, but she didn't fit the first criteria even in a hypothetical) then what would he do? For a long time he had trouble even picturing the situation until a half-joking conversation with Polnareff came to mind. If joking wasn't joking and it really was between the three of them, what then? He sure as hell wouldn't step aside as long as Jotaro still wanted him around, he didn't have 'surrender' in his vocabulary. But there had to be some gray middle ground between black and white, one or the other.]
...The fact that you're worried about this so much means you aren't going to just carelessly hurt her.
[Kakyoin couldn't believe he was seriously considering this purely hypothetical matter, but if it came down to a matter of himself, Polnareff, and Jotaro in a similar tangled mess, then-]
You shouldn't have to shut down every possible route that ends in your own happiness just because some of them might hurt her. Some will, but those obviously aren't the paths you're going to take. You're thinking through what happens next and considering the consequences, that's important in itself.
[-he would want them all to be happy. Taking a half-step to one side wasn't stepping aside completely.]
Hear me out for a minute. I want you to talk about this with Joseph--ask him how he feels about Suzie himself, if you haven't already. If what I know for a fact in 1988 is still true now, I know he'll want to protect her too. The two of you make a good team; you're the kind of people that just get each other sometimes, right? So if you want to protect her and he wants to protect her, then you can work together and make sure none of you end up getting hurt.
[Communicate like a fucking adult, Caesar.]
no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 10:47 pm (UTC)[He'll fight his own ass in the desert over Suzie Quatro. Don't test him.]
[He does listen, though. He doesn't really like this answer, or believe it, but he's finding it hard to argue against it. It's just hard to envision this working out without people getting hurt, terribly hurt. That's sort of what he's used to. Used to doing the hurting, too.]
[Suzie's not one of those girls. She's his Suzie, or their Suzie, or something . . . he doesn't know. He just doesn't know at all.]
I asked him. That was, that was the first thing I asked him. He said he didn't know what would happen, if — he just said he didn't know how it would change things. And then—
[And then they weren't talking about that anymore. Or about anything. He frowns slightly, focusing just past Kakyoin's ear.]
I don't think he knows. About that or about anything. He doesn't, when he got here he was still fighting, I don't know if it's any easier for him to think about all of this, about having a life again, than it is for me.
no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 10:59 pm (UTC)[That answer came immediately, as though it hadn't required thought at all. It couldn't have been any easier for Joseph just like it wasn't easy for Jotaro. Dying had been simple, living past that was what seemed nigh impossible.]
No one goes back to being normal after...all of this. Cairo, whatever you guys were doing, there's no 'happily ever after', there's no 'back to the way things were'. There's just 'trying not to be fucked up'. But there's also the fact that neither of us have to try to do that alone.
Listen to me, okay--really carefully. Rushing ahead would be careless, you're absolutely right to be concerned about Suzie as well as just in general. But you're not just rushing ahead, the factthat you're here talking about this at all proves that. And you don't have to solve every single problem here at this exact second. If there's one thing this place is good for, it's giving time to people that don't have any--so for now you and Joseph both have time to work through this whole thing as cautiously as you need to.
Your happiness doesn't automatically mean someone else's misery, Caesar. Not Suzie's, not Holly's, not anyone's. It's not completely, unforgivably selfish to think 'I deserve to be unconditionally happy just once after the shit I've been through.'
no subject
Date: 2016-04-10 11:09 pm (UTC)Historically speaking, my happiness hasn't really coincided with anyone else's.
[There's still one thing he wants to ask about, but at the same time he really, really doesn't. He doesn't want to talk about any of this. He doesn't want to be here, but he doesn't want to go home. He has no idea what he wants — which is exactly the problem.]
[He drags his hands down his face, up through his hair, ends up with his hands folded on the table and his chin rested on top of them.]
This is all so stupid. It's stupid that it's happening at all, it's stupid that I'm so shit at it, all of this is stupid.
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Date: 2016-04-10 11:12 pm (UTC)...But I think it's okay if you're not any good at it. Neither am I, and I think I've gotten a little better. You will too, I'm sure.
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Date: 2016-04-10 11:16 pm (UTC)[Articulate. He blows his bangs out of his face.]
If I don't utterly fuck everything up first.
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Date: 2016-04-10 11:19 pm (UTC)[He stopped for a second, like something about that struck a chord somewhere. After a short silence, he adjusted his glasses and spoke up quietly:]
'Sometimes change is like crawling up a steep gravel hill on your elbows. It'll hurt. You'll fuck up. You'll slide back down.
No one is going to stop caring about you if that happens.'
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Date: 2016-04-10 11:22 pm (UTC)[He looks up at Kakyoin, eyes narrowed.]
People stop caring about you if you hurt them. Sometimes you don't even have to hurt them to make that happen. Sometimes it just happens.
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Date: 2016-04-10 11:30 pm (UTC)I've screwed up a lot of different ways and gotten Jotaro pissed off at me before. It didn't change anything. He was angry, but that didn't automatically translate to 'I hate you and never want to see you again, Kakyoin' even if I was absolutely convinced that it would.
...I told you I wanted to be part of this family. I wanted whatever that other Kakyoin Fujiko told you to be true, weird and surreal as it might be. I meant it then, and I mean it now. Family doesn't turn their back on one another, right? Even if you did something to really make me angry, I wouldn't suddenly despise you. And I know friends don't just turn their backs on each other. No one here is going to despise you or write you off as a lost cause. I won't allow it, even if they tried.
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